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| Karl Zumwait posted Otto tower circa 1947 Rich Westerman Still there. No stairs, windows boarded up. I've heard that it contains signal electronics which is why its not been razed. Jon Roma Yes, it still stands. Until both the Otto and Ashkum control points were upgraded a couple years ago by CN, the structures housed the signal hardware to run the plants. This may affect their future now that they no longer contain equipment. Jon RomaBoth Otto and Ashkum ceased to be manned towers when the CTC machine controlling Otto-Gilman was installed in Gilman in 1950. Trent Blasco Jon Roma what exactly did OTTO control. it does not look like a busy branch that connects to the main.... Erik Coleman Otto was the Junction of the Chicago District with the Bloomington District or "Bloomer" as it's called locally. The namesake shortline operates a large remnant of that branch, though CN still operates (for now) a small stretch from Otto to Herscher. Nikki Burgess The Bloomington District also provided access to the Pontiac line at Saxony, south of Kempton. So when the tower was constructed there was far more traffic on and off the main at that point. Jon Roma Otto's importance as an interlocking went far beyond the connection to the Bloomington District. It was the south end of three main tracks which happened to be the busiest stretch of the entire IC system. On the two-track portion to the south, IC instituted an early (1920s) example of bidirectional running on signal indication instead of train orders to handle the heavy traffic, which included everything from local freights and coal drags to banana trains and fast passenger trains. Skip Luke Trent Blasco .... I have train sheets from the 1920s ..... Lot of trains back then. ..... Just figuring it in my head, though, in the 60s we had about 35 or 40 trains a day through there, depending somewhat on whether the lakes were iced over or not. That includes 13 passenger trains, 2 locals on the Bloomer, local roundtrip KKK to Gilman and back, 6 freights to and from Gilman Line (including hot auto parts,) through frts to and fro m down south, and coal trains and coal empties.... Of course, that was before W. B. Johnson, Illinois Central Goof and HamTrak. If I feel.motivated I might drag out those old trainsheets. Jon Roma I have digitized some old IC train sheets, and they can be found on my website at https://www.jonroma.net/rail/movement/train-sheets/. These files are downloadable high-resolution PDFs. Sadly, I have not yet gotten around to digitizing a lot of Chicago District sheets, but there are a couple old ones featured there. The oldest one is from 1919, and lists 74 trains in 24 hour's time. Jon Roma Trent Blasco, it's important to remember that today's trains are longer and carry more tonnage than the 80-car standard of yesteryear. It's absolutely true that the IC and other railroads lost a lot of traffic over the years, but comparing number of trains does not tell the whole story. The measure that matters is tonnage. Trent Blasco Jon Roma yes very true however i suspect dispatching back then was much harder with all the traffic and no radios or computers to assist Jon Roma Trent Blasco, a good dispatcher in that era didn't need a radio or computer or even a CTC board. All they needed was a train sheet, the block telephone or telegraph, and a lot of nicotine and caffeine. Bear in mind that on double track with automatic block signals and passing tracks, the rule book and timetable pre-ordained that inferior trains got in the clear for superior ones, so the dispatcher didn't have to spoon-feed instructions to these trains. On top of that, the dispatcher had telegraphers in every depot five or ten miles apart (at least on day trick) giving "OS" reports. So the dispatcher in the old days had plenty of eyes and ears from one end of his territory to the other, but he also had less technology (like CTC and radio) to help him out. So it's hard to compare then vs. now either. One thing I can add is that old-time dispatchers had a relatively short life expectancy after retirement. The heavy smoking may have had a part, but the stress of the job was probably the most significant factor. Not only did we not understand the causes back then, the treatment options were pretty primitive too. Trent Blasco Jon Roma oh i can see that. i move oversized equipment for a living and i am stressed just about all day. you dont feel it until you realize you are gripping things hard and not breathing right. holding your breath....etc |
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| Jon Roma commented on Karl's post Here's a builder's photo of northernmost portion of the CTC machine that replaced the interlocking machines at Otto, Chebanse, Cifton, Ashkum, and North Gilman. This photo was taken on July 21, 1950 in the Union Switch & Signal factory at Swissvale, PA before being shipped to the IC. From paperwork in my files, the territory controlled by the individual towers mentioned was cut over to the new machines in stages. Skip Luke Jon Roma ...... I spent a lot of time looking at that board. Jon Roma I remember hearing a story about a CTC operator at Gilman who accidentally ran No. 53 through the Ashkum pass because he'd forgotten to check the switch before giving a lineup. He said that, when the delayed train was rolling through Gilman, he avoided going out to the platform to accept the nasty glares from the engine crew. Skip Luke Jon Roma ..... Can't verify that one, but could happen. Would have to have been pre-radio or they'd have been turning the airwaves blue when they got that diverging signal. Jon Roma Oh, the operator himself admitted to me his error (long after the "statute of limitations"). He didn't wind up in the doghouse because 53 made up all the lost time between Gilman and Champaign, back when speed limits were winked at more than they are today. |
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| Jon Roma commented on Karl's post This scene is from the camera of railroad executive John W. Barriger III, and depicts a view looking north at Otto from the rear observation car of a southbound train. The presence of the old depot/tower on the west (left) side of the track suggests an early date, but appears to me to be at odds with the vintage of automobile parked at the tower on the right, which is the one that still stands. The Barriger library can be accessed at https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/. Paul Jaenicke Jon Roma Road to the right of the tower must of been a local county or township road. Route 45 and 54 was further east from here. I 57 didn't come till late 1960's. Mark Weg they call the road next to the tower Old 45....runs between Chebanse to the north and Clifton to the south ....and further. Mark Rickert One on the left looks to be wood and the one on the right brick. Skip Luke Mark Rickert ... Seems I remember the wooden structure was a combination tower/depot and survived for a while as a section house. Jon Roma Mark, yes. Brick towers did not become a thing for the IC till the big modernization during the Markham presidency in the Twenties. |
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| Sam Carlson posted Death Stars through Otto, IL in June, 1997. Strange to say, 20 years later, the tower still stood. |
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| Steven J. Brown posted Illinois Central Gulf SD40 6065 (built 1966 as GM&O 916, became IC SD40-2R 6065, retired 2009) is the power on the northbound Santa Train at Otto, Illinois - December 20, 1987. Dennis DeBruler shared I was going to skip this post because I'm worried about hitting the "6 posts a day" rule, but then I saw the comment by Earin Land: "The one off, 2 eyeball caboose!" Steven J. Brown shared |
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| Kevin Keller commented on Steven's share Tower still there as of November 2021 via google? Dennis DeBruler: Kevin Keller It was there as of Dec 20, 2023. And further south the old code line still exists with most of the glass insulators. https://www.google.com/.../@41.0562979.../data=!3m1!1e3... |
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| Street View, note the code poll still standing on the left side of this capture. |
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| Sam Carlson commented on his post Brian Voss I have to wonder how many hundred times NS wished they had never disposed of the Wabash main... Sam Carlson When I was hauling crews, sometimes I'd have to go down to Otto (from Chicago) to dogcatch NS crews. Yeah, most of them bitched up a storm. But some liked it, because they could collect tow-in time, extra hours, final terminal time, and a host of other paycheck enhancing add ons. "If I was on the Wabash, I'd be running an engine now. Instead I'm getting paid big-time to sleep in the back of this van!" Mark Egebrecht Sam Carlson You mean Otto Junction where the IC Bloomer Line merged up with the IC New Orleans Main? Sam Carlson Yup. Sometimes the NS trains just parked on the siding; other times they'd shove around the wye to get in the clear. [Wabash got trackage rights to Decatur over the IC and then tore up their tracks.] Harold J. Krewer Wasn't a branch, this was the Wabash's Chicago-Decatur main line. Crossed the Tip-Up at Forrest, then ran trackage rights over TP&W to Fairbury to reach the branch up to Pontiac and Streator. |
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| Richard Koenig posted Tower at Otto, just south of Kankakee, which I believe was built in the 1920s. This is along side the Mainline of Mid-America, of course. One photograph by Richard Koenig; taken February 11th 2018. Ean Kahn-Treras: There is a gate now at the start of the access road off of Otto Rd. That showed up in 2019 I believe. No good access now unless you park on I-57 and feel like jumping over a barb wire fence. |
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| HalstEd Pazdzior posted Otto tower sits vacant as KCS 4006 rumbles by. 9/27/21 |
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| Kevin Piper posted Wilton, IL, 8-28-77 Corey Brandau What year were the tracks taken out of service or removed? Junior Hill Corey Brandau Around 1977 I think. Evie N Bob Bruns By mid 70's they stopped shipping anything out of there. Today it looks like they would be quite busy as would be Andres and Whitaker. Shame they shut it down so soon. We did bring in a lot of 90ft cars with wood and steel poles for Commonwealth Edison when they were building through there. Bill Molony shared |
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| Dennis DeBruler commented on Kevin's post That town never was much more than the grain elevator. This is a 1939 aerial photo. https://clearinghouse.isgs.illinois.edu/.../0bxk01063.jpg Kipp Meyers I count 14 cars in the siding |
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| John Eagan commented on Kevin's post |
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| John Eagan commented on Kevin's post Junior Hill This would still be a healthy shipper to this day. John Eagan Especially if it was on the KB&S... John Eagan The Norfolk & Western was approached by this elevator, one at Andres, one at Manhattan, Commonwealth Edison (a power substation) and a tank farm around 1980 to continue service over the Milwaukee. Transaction Associates (Erie Western) was also interested in operating the entire CM&G plus the Milwaukee line from Chicago Heights to Danville. Nothing came of any of this except the N&W did provide service to the tank farm, and NS continues to do so to this day. Kevin Piper There was talk of an NS intermodal facility south of Manhattan on old arsenal land, but nothing became of it. |
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| Martin O'Connor posted 1954 Aerial of Wilton Station elevator. Looking NW with Offner Rd in background, Wilton Rd in foreground. |
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| Tim Howard commetned on Martin's post today |
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| Martin commented on his post Now known as Crawford Grain International — photo from Rural Historic Survey of Wilton Twp. |
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| Dennis DeBruler commented on Bret's post This was Wilton, IL. A railroad used to run right next to the two wood elevators. That railroad was last owned by the Milwaukee Railroad. Before that, it was the Chicago, Milwaukee and Gary. And it was built as the Illinois, Iowa & Minnesota Railway. This is an example of an Illinois town that disappeared except for the grain elevator after the railroad was abandoned. |
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| Roger Kujawa posted Peoria Union Stock Yard Postcard. 1920’s era. David Jordan  Most of it was torn down in 1997 to make room for a Freesen asphalt plant. The stockyards closed in December 2017. |
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| Glen Snodgrass, Jun 2016 |
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| Mike Wettstein, Jan 2017 |
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| Peoria Historical Society posted Bird's Eye View of the Stock Yards, Peoria, IL (ca. 1920) |
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| One of several photos posted by pjstar in an article about the closing The Peoria terminal hosted as many as 7,000 hogs per day and up to 2,000 head of cattle on days those animals were accepted when Swalve started working on the yard in 1974. More recently, the Peoria Stock Yards accepted cattle only on Mondays and would receive 10 to 15 animals. Hog numbers dwindled to low triple digits. “The profit margin just became so small in the farming industry....You have to be so big and limit your expenses so much to be profitable,” Swalve said. “The big companies are raising and producing a lot of their own product. They’d be large enough that they didn’t need a middle guy like us.” |
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| Google Earth, 12-30-1984 |
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| Google Earth, 12-30-1984 |
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| Forgotten Railways posted The sheer complexity and size of the Joliet Army Ammunition Plant is mesmerizing. Used in World War II and closed in the 80's, it became a superfund site and eventually the Midewin National Tallgrass Prairie. The ruins are still viewable on maps and most likely in person as well, although I'm not sure it's the best area to trespass, given it's owned by the government. A small part of the rail line is walkable as the Henslow Trail, which uses the bridge over IL-53, which was the original route of US-66. Lots and lots of history in quite a small area! Source: USGS 1954 Wilmington 1:62500 map. http://historicalmaps.arcgis.com/usgs/ Patrick Finn Parts of the old bunker areas are open as part of the Midewin National Tallgrass Prairie. I've done some exploring out there... lots of old storage bunkers and a WW2 "Bailey Bridge" but I did not come across any traces of the old rail network. Ted Fisk I too have walked around Midewin and seen many bunkers, but almost no evidence of the railroad. But you might see the herd of bison. AJ Grigg shared Michael Buckley Bnsf bought most of it and made the LPC rail yard and they made a National Cemetary on other . I don't know how much the Goverment still ownes yet . To the west end of LPC there were still cement ammo bunkers left yet . I had heard there were 400 miles track at on tile there . Santa Fe switched the north side and IC switched the east dont know if GMO did anything there . We would pick up at Blogett by old rt 66 and empty s on so tk across from Mobile oil . |
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| Patrick Finn commented on the above posting One of the bunkers |
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| From the Chicago Tribune, "Jan. 20, 1958: A fully-automated shell-filling line designed and built by Mechanics Research Department of American Machine & Foundry Company for the Joliet Arsenal. Key stations along the assembly line were observed on five television monitors by a single-operator seated at a remote console. — Tribune Archive photo / Chicago Tribune, July 29, 2014" |
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| From the Chicago Tribune:"Jan. 24, 1994: An aerial view shows part of the 19,000 acres of the former Joliet Arsenal that eventually became the Midewin National Tallgrass Prairie." — Tribune Archive photo / Chicago Tribune, July 29, 2014 |
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| Forgotten Railways - Prairie |
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| Richard Mead posted Internet download...running down the Joliet Arsenal spur, 1969 John George Where is the exact location of this photo Richard Mead? Richard Mead Alongside the Wabash, south of the junction. Mark Stoeckel Didn’t realize the “Gary Line” served the arsenal as well as the Alton/GM&O and the Wabash. Brian Skrabutenas Mark Stoeckel the Gary line also interchange the GM&O Plaines yard in Joliet. John Petit At one time someone fill the switch points full of concrete for the arsenal lead, was 71 or 72. |
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| Dennis DeBruler commented on Bill's share The land has been reused as the BNSF intermodal yard, Abraham Lincoln National Cemetery, and the Midewin National Tall Grass Prairie. https://livingatlas.arcgis.com/topoexplorer/index.html |
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| Dennis DeBruler commented on Bill's share On topo maps, the railroad is labeled U S GOVERNMENT. It connected to the Santa Fe on the west side and the Wabash on the east side. 1953 Symerton, 1954 Wilmington, 1954 Channahan and 1953 Elwood Quadrangles @ 1:24,000 |
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| Martin O'Connor posted This topic is obliquely related to the Gary Line, as the route skirted the east side of the arsenal between Peotone and Manhattan. The Milwaukee Road did serve the ordnance plant with a spur from Manhattan. I grew up just SW of this area, and many of my relatives and neighbors worked there for a time, including my dad. I often saw some of the switchers moving across the overpass on my way to and from school in Joliet. I remember them all painted in Army Olive Drab, with Caution Yellow lettering. Someone on this forum provided a fairly nullcomprehensive roster of Engines operated by the JAAP. http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=39591... |
