Veedersburg, IN: Junction Tower: NKP(Cloverleaf) vs. Big4/P&E vs. CA&S/C&EI and NYC Depot

Tower: (Satellite)

Depot: (Satellite, the war museum may be using the NYC Depot.)

The NKP/Cloverleaf Depot has its own notes.

Jeffrey Bossaer posted

Jeffrey Bossaer posted

 

If the war museum is reusing the depot, a door and the siding has been changed. But that is not an unusual modification.

Street View, May 2023

We have seen the Cloverleaf and Peoria & Eastern before. And I have seen mention of  Chicago, Attica & Southern (CA&S) before. But what amazes me is that the SPV Map indicates the CA&S was originally the Chicago & Eastern Illinois. It turns out the C&EI had considerable trackage in northern Indiana, not all of which was connected with its main route out of Chicago.

Andy Zachary posted
Story about the closing of the tower in Veedersburg, courtesy of Steve Krueger.
Arthur Shale Loaded cars delivered by NKP to NYC in 1943 10; received 97. Loaded cars delivered by NKP to NYC in 1953 114, received 320.
Jim Sinclair I'm guessing there was much more interchange traffic going on when the CA&S was still in business? Arthur Shale gives some interesting statistics from 1943 and 1953 above, which is heavier than I thought it would be!

Mark Egebrecht When we're the other 2 lines abandoned? I believe the P&E was filed for abandonment by Conrail in March, 1982, but the diamond was still in place and the signals still lit in 1983. Clover Leaf was filed for abandonment from Linden to Cowden in March, 1987.

Andy Zachary Thank you Jim. The thing that's always been curious to me was, Veedersburg's only real claim-to-fame is that they provided a significant portion of the bricks used to build the track at Indianapolis Motor Speedway. Now, from what I've been told, the majority of Vburg's bricks for that project came from the brick plant south of town that the Clover Leaf and the CA&S had access to - not the one on the west side of town that the P&E served. This makes no sense to me. The P&E literally ran right beside the Speedway. Heck, they even ran passenger specials to the track on race day! So what routing would take the bricks from Veedersburg to Indy via the Clover Leaf? The only logical one was that they went up to Frankfort, then interchanged with either the Monon or the Pennsy down to Indy.

Andy Zachary Apparently you CAN find everything on the internet. On the website www.firstsuperspeedway.com, there's a link to the September 19th, 1909 copy of the Indianapolis Star. In it, it states "Two car loads of bricks arrived yesterday over the Big Four on special trains." It states later on in the article that, "The bricks will be shipped hereafter at the rate of twenty cars every day. The Veedersburg plant has increased its working force in order to supply the demand at once."

The CA&S was abandoned ca. 1945. The NKP acquired the Clover Leaf in 1922 and N&W merged the NKP in 1964. "The NW abandoned the section of the line between Frankfort, Indiana and Metcalf, Illinois in the 1960s." [AbandonedRails] Below I used yellow for the CA&S, blue for the NKP/Cloverleaf, and green for the Big Four/Peoria and Eastern. I added a red rectangle around the NKP Depot.

Satellite

Here are several images posted by Jeffrey Bossaer with the comment:

BIG FOUR AND CLOVER LEAF RAILROADS AT VEEDERSBURG.

These are pictures I have downloaded and added to the Fountain County Historical Committee files. I tried to edit and improve a few of them.

For more historical pictures of Fountain County go to the Facebook group, Fountain and Warren County Indiana History.

a

b

c

d

e

f

g
Junction depot in Veedersburg, IN, probably the Big Four Railroad and Chicago and Eastern Illinois Railroad at the time this picture was taken.

h
This picture was featured on a 2023 mural in Veedersburg.

i

j
1912

k

l
What was the Big Four Railroad is blue, and what was the Clover Leaf Railroad is green.

m
What was the Big Four Railroad is blue, and what was the Clover Leaf Railroad is green.

This is the oldest topo map that is available and the CA&S/C&EI is gone already.

1958/59 Veedersburg Quad @ 24,000

Sep 225, 1952 @ 60,000; ARA000950050671

Urbana, IL: Big Four/PE Railyard, Roundhouse, Shops and Depot

Railyard: (see below for satellite)

Depot: (Satellite. 50 photos)

Brehm, Kara, “Peoria & Eastern Railroad, 1866,” ExploreCU, accessed March 30, 2017, http://explorecu.org/items/show/202.

The Big Four opened a yard and shops on the east side of Urbana in April of 1871. This location now houses MTD's garage and offices, but before that there were machine shops, switching yards and a roundhouse capable of servicing 15 steam engines. In 1897 the shops underwent major renovations. A smoke stack for a power plant was erected, becoming a landmark in the Urbana area. The stack was 133½ feet tall and 13 feet square at the base. There was also a water tower with a capacity of 100,000 gallons. [CUMTD]

See Champaign for more discussion of rails in Urbana.

Satellite

Bob Kalal posted
Big Four in Urbana Illinois

Roger Kujawa posted
RPPC Peoria & Eastern Railroad Shops Urbana, Illinois. New York Central Cars circa 1924.
Roger Kujawa shared
Roger Kujawa shared

1940 Aerial Photo from ILHAP

1940 Aerial Photo from ILHAP

University of Illinois Archives, circa 1910- 1935

Marty Bernard posted three photos with the comment: "3 Peoria & Eastern, Urbana, IL. Roger Puta took these 3 on the same role.  The slide mounts are stamped by Kodak as processed in January 1972.  Roger wrote nothing on the slide mounts.  But they are interesting."

1
1. "Road to the Future" Caboose 29417

2
2. GP7 5671 with 2 different logos

3
3. "All Persons Are Warned" Sign

Marty Bernard posted
3 Early NYC Geeps
NYC 6066, 5608, and 5700 (GP9, GP7, and GP7) at Urbana, IL on the Peoria & Eastern, in July 1964. Roger Puta photo
Joseph Tuch Santucci: The 5700 had dynamic brakes but a small fuel tank.
I can recall the 6066 from my days as a kid seeing it go past my house on the Joliet Branch. Always had a thing for numbers and that pattern stuck out in my head. Can even remember it in lightning stripes. Looks pretty fresh new paint on it here.
Kevin McKinney: The units are so clean it looks like a publicity shot!

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Depot

Andy Zukowski posted
New York Central Lines Depot and Train, Urbana, Illinois. 1914

Mike Friedman: That's well before the current brick depot (which has been called The Station Theatre since 1972) was built (1923, I think). And before the Wabash built on the south side of the building.

Grayson Warbritton: Big Four/Peoria Eastern at the time of the postcard. By the 1930s the P&E was a separately owned subsidiary of the New York Central.

Ward Vaughan: Ran through Farmer city, Harris, Mansfield and Mahommit on the way to Urbana. Saw one freight run though Mansfield in the early 1950s

Richard Fiedler shared

A different exposure

Andy Zukowski posted

New York Central Depot in Urbana, Illinois. 1914   

Photo by C.R. Childs

The depot is extant, and it is now used as a theater.

Street View, Sep 2015

Bloomington, IL: Dean Tower: NS/N&W/NKP/LEW+Aban/CR/NYC/Big4/P&E vs. Aban/ICG/IC

(Satellite)

P&E was the Peoria & Eastern, and LEW was the Lake Erie & Western.

Roger Holmes posted
The engineer of an N&W eastbound reaches for his train orders at Dean Tower on the south side of Bloomington, Illinois, taken a year or two after the merger with the Nickel Plate Road. On the head end is a GP30 still painted in NKP colors and is about to hit the diamond with the Illinois Central's Freeport to Centralia line. Note the P&E concrete property marker, the P&E being just out of view to the left of the tower. At one time the interlocker also controlled the Illinois Terminal which followed the IC from Decatur and Clinton. © Roger A. Holmes.
[Note the signalling pipelines.]
Roger Holmes posted
Thanks for making me a member! This is a photo that I took back in the mid-1960's of Dean Tower on the south side of Bloomington, Illinois. The eastbound N&W freight - with a Nickel Plate GP-30 on the point, is about to cross over the Illinois Central's line which ran from Freeport to Centralia. Just to the left, out of the picture was the Peoria & Eastern. At one time the Illinois Terminal made it's presence know here as well. When I worked for the Gulf, Mobile & Ohio I worked every open tower between Chicago and St. Louis with the exception of Bridgeport. Some were just for one shift but just the same..
Richard Fiedler shared

Zachary C. Gillihan commented on Roger's second post
Dean’s model board hangs from my basement running trains on simulation 24/7.

In the above photo, it looked like the tower was east of the IC tracks. But this aerial photo shows it was west of the IC, south of the NKP, and north of the Big Four. The white line across the top was US 66.

1940 Aerial Photo from ILHAP

The following satellite image is of the same area. The north/south part of Trilakes Road is part of the old IC route.

Satellite

I include a bigger part of the aerial photo to provide some context. If you look southeast of Bloomington on a satellite image, you can easily see the tree line of the P&E route. You have to look further south of Bloomington to see the land scars and treelines of the IC route.

1940 Aerial Photo from ILHAP

Update:

Stephen N. Brannon posted
Another classic was Dean Tower on the SE side of Bloomington, Illinois where train orders were copied for IC, NKP, and P&E. Anybody work this one?
Darren Reynolds shared

 

Allen Miller commented on Stephen's post
Here's an order from Dean, copied in 1944. The operator, Monty Powell, was only 15 years of age when he copied this order, hiring out a month or two earlier when he was only 14.

Stephen N. Brannon: Allen Miller Thanks for posting this! I love the railroad photos taken by Monty Powell over the years of his career!

Darren Reynolds shared

Stephen N. Brannon posted
Inside of Dean Tower, Bloomington, Illinois after it had been closed and abandoned, but with levers still in place. The day I visited and took this photo I scarfed up a pile of train orders, clearances, and messages for all three lines, plus the Operator’s Transfer Logbook. Treasures left behind to be discovered!

Stephen N. Brannon posted
Dean Tower in Bloomington in 1973 at the crossings with the P&E and Nickel Plate lines to Peoria. IC northbound train order board out perhaps for No. 372 the northbound Clinton-Freeport "Long Gruber."
Everett Lueck: It looks a little bit worse for wear from the times that I used to hang out there in the 1960's. It is the Peoria and Eastern on the south side of the tower, the IC Charter line (Gruber Line) on the east side running under the 66 bypass, and the Nickel Plate on the north side of the tower.

Stephen N. Brannon posted
Another shot of Dean Tower, Bloomington, Illinois in its last days of service in the mid-1970s. Westbound NS on the old NKP crossing the IC Charter Line. Sorry it’s not a better photo.

Carl Venzke posted
IC No. 908 at Dean Tower in July, 1957, near the end of the use of steam power here. Dean was where the Illinois Central crossed the Nickel Plate and the Peoria & Eastern. Perhaps No. 908 had been sent there to handle transfer traffic between the railroads. Richard Leonard photo.

Matt Smith posted
From the Barringer files, with enhancement: Dean

Mike Sypult posted
50s Dean Tower, Bloomington, IL - Paul Dunakey photo.

Stephen N. Brannon posted
One more shot of Dean Tower, Bloomington during its final days of service in the mid-1970s, looking southward along the IC Charter Line. Again sorry for the poor photographic quality.

Thomas Dyrek posted
A westbound Norfolk & Western train crosses the Illinois Central Gulf at Bloomington on an unknown date. John and Roger Kujawa photo, Thomas Dyrek collection.
Craig Ross: As for the date, sometime between 1978 and 1983 based on the U1 dot and the consolidated stencil on the caboose.
Dennis DeBruler shared
Kristopher Isaac Barrington shared

Steven Kakoczki commented on Thomas' post
Did a little work to the photo.......