Tuesday, March 5, 2019

Dearborn, MI: 1921-1999,2025 Ford Rouge Plant

(Satellite)


Ford posted
Steve Lucas I'm more interested in the American Locomotive Company S-3 locomotive pulling the multi-level auto rack railroad cars. Nice!Detroit - Area Railroad History shared
Clifford Nickerson Publicity shot. The suits never came out to the railhead.
Frank Traum Note that Ford Motor Company was using Alco locomotives at the Rouge plant, which replaced the General Electric switchers of Wellsville, Addison and Galeton Railroad fame. Ford didn't use General Motors locomotives until the mid 1970's. (I've posted this comment with other groups about this photo, so this may be familiar.)

Luke Honkala posted
James Fogg Ford was making 1100 Mustangs/day in this year. I think it was across 3 factories, so assuming equal production (it probably wasn't equal) that's 400 cars/day. That's 27 rail cars at 15 automobiles/rail car. It had to take a long time to load each car, and they look like they're end-loaded so you had to switch one car at a time to a loading ramp. The labor and logistics had to be huge.
Dan Holbrook 1965 probably. The guys in suits weren't the car jockeys! Bar across the grill. '66s only had logo in the center. No bar.
Ray Bottles Lots of Damage on these Automobile carries CARS !! BTTX KTTX switched a lot of these BI and TRI levels !!! When they first appeared on the Railroad 1960's lots lots of Damage!! The Truckers in Detroit totally 😡!! Would dump paint off bridges in Detroit!! Lots of Damage!! My Father NYC Police Lieutenant would investigate!!
Ken Jamin I remember when the RRs began enclosing auto racks at the request of the auto mfgrs. to protect autos from theft and vandalism. However, when the RRs wanted to charge to auto mfgrs. a surcharge to cover the cost of enclosing them, the auto industry declined to pay for it.
TheHenryFord-History

Jason Pond commented on a post
Overhead view from the west side of the Rouge. 2012.

Detroit Historical Society posted
On June 4, 1896, Henry Ford test drove the Quadricycle, his first gasoline-powered automobile, on the streets of Detroit. It's pictured along with Henry Ford's first workshop, a portrait of Ford and an aerial view of the Ford River Rouge Complex on this 1930s-era postcard.

Peter Dudley shared
This c. 1945 aerial view shows Ford Motor Company's River Rouge Complex in Dearborn, the Detroit, Toledo & Ironton Railroad (DT&I) tracks paralleling the newly-completed Detroit Industrial Expressway (originally U.S. 12, re-designated I-94 c. 1956), the old Ford headquarters building (designed by Albert Kahn, later Lincoln-Mercury Division headquarters) on Schaefer Highway, and the original (open-air) version of the Ford Rotunda (1933-1962), before its new roof made it a year-round facility (enabling eight consecutive Christmas Displays).
An application of hot tar to the Rotunda's roof in November 1962 started a fire, resulting in the landmark's complete destruction. Fire doors leading to the north and south wings preserved the Ford Archives (now available online).
Ronald L Sutton School Class took a tour of Ford Rouge right after WWII. ore coming into Docks, made into Steel, Stamped into shapes. Final Assembly, Cars driven off the end of the Production Line.
Chris Edwards wow- the Rotunda and Rouge- Albert Kahn Modernism in foreground and at one time the biggest factory in the world in BG- also built by Kahn-an absolutely remarkable photo.
Chris Yuergens I remember going to the Christmas show at the Rotunda, and when it burned down.
Larry Sobczak Look at all that smoke coming out of the factory! [The smoke caught my eye as well.]
 
Association for Great Lakes Maritime History posted
An image of the Ford Motor Co. freighter Chester with a deck load of new automobiles circa 1931-1940 (Image Source: Wayne State University – Walter P. Reuther Library – Archives of Labor and Urban Affairs). The photograph may have been taken at the Ford Rouge River complex in Dearborn, Mich. 
Additional Historical Information
Launched in 1931, the Chester was built at River Rouge, Mich. by the Great Lakes Engineering Works for the Ford Motor Co. The 300-foot vessel was designed to transit Lake Erie, the New York State Barge Canal and the Hudson River.
[The description continues with more history about Chester.]
Michael Meredith: Yes, Rouge River factory, taken from south side of Dix Street bridge.
Judy Barnes-DePeal shared
 
Eddie Abbott posted
View of the Ford automobile plant in Dearborn
Late 40s
Scott Gracie: They made it all there including glass, except for tires and some other rubber components.
It's been said, raw iron ore, coal, limestone for steel and sand for glass would arrive at the docks in raw form .......within 26 hours a new, finished Ford would roll off the assembly line, headed for transport to a Ford dealer. I've heard different peak employment levels but it may have been around 70,000 in the '50s and '60s, directly under the FoMoCo umbrella.
Nick Breznai shared

A share of this image that has some more interesting comments
Imbued with Hues posted
1927 - A fender stamping press at the Ford Motor Company River Rouge plant, Dearborn, Michigan
Gary Maddox: That's probably a maint guy with no gloves. That is probably a 500 to 750 ton or so press and now fenders are made with 5,000 ton transfer presses that makes this look tiny. I was a maint guy on these type dies for many years.
Rob Kaufman: I had 4 of these in our stainless steel sink operation. They ranged from 500 ton pressure to 850 tons. The crown ( top section with gears) weighed 128000 lbs in the largest press. At American/Standard in Salem the bathtub draw press had 1800 tons force. Speed was between 4 to 6 strokes per minute but you stopped to remove each part and then put in the next 72 x 80 inch blank. Sinks started at .048" and the tubs were .104" thick.
Rob Kaufman: My 800 tom came out of a Packard plant in Detroit. It formed the entire roof section for sedans from the 1930s until 1955 when they quit making Packard. It.was.built by Toledo press company that later became E W Bliss. They went out of business in 1980. Gulf and Western bought them in about 1970 and they suffered the same fate as all of the hundreds of other good companies that were bought by conglomerates.
John Ruppert: Massive machine!!! I’m from Cleveland and took a tour of the Ford plant in Northfield, Ohio with my school class in the 80’s. They were very proud of the robot feeding the mill, but they still needed a worker to position the blank in the robot’s arms. They were stamping body parts for the Cougar/T-bird. They also were very proud of their new CAD room.
Greg Kehoe: Worked tool and die at the Woodhaven stamping plant, some presses were over 3 stories tall.
David Fowler: Ford invested in larger presses than GM did early on. So Ford had more steel in them GM had wood inside the body shell way after Ford went to steel. Also the do you know the reason they had the vinyl insert with chicken wire in the middle of the roof on the early Fords. They did not have a press large enough to stamp a full roof it had to be 4 pieces with the vinyl center.
Today a typical lead off press will be 2,500 to 3,000 tons. This press probably 500 - 800 ton. The steel today is way more difficult to form to get the crash testing up.
David Herman: Haha, those fenders are just little baby’s compared to the front and rear fenders of cars made in the 50s and 60s formally called quarter panels , I worked with the biggest presses in the world when I was with fisher body which was part of General Motors and one thing that a lot of people don’t know is that when you look at one of those beasts you are only seeing half of the press and what I mean by that is those presses also extend on down below the ground level for another 15 or so feet! The dies that I use to work on back then that use to make the quarter panels for cars weighed almost as much as a modern military tank and some of the old timers that I worked with told me stories of when they saw guys get squished by being inside the press when it accidentally rolled over on them and there body’s came out of the press as thin as a piece of cardboard!!
Thomas Peters: During my tool and die apprenticeship we toured Fisher Body in Willow Springs Illinois 1980. Floor panels for Pontiac Sunbird. If I remember it was 4 stations. Workers were passing it from one press to the other.
Bruce Bessette: The oldest I worked on was bliss Toledo built in 1859 400 ton straight side that was in 1980 was still in operation.
Vincent Brown: Worked on a few 10,000 ton presses. That's probably a 750. My favorite press is a Minster P2H 100. I do like the older Bliss presses for their simplicity. Always wanted to tear a Minster Hummingbird down.

Imbued with Hues commented on their post
original

Derrick Jasper commented on Wade's post concerning a photo showing both gasometers
It’s looking from the north of the plant. The one on the left is the one in your picture . The one on the right is on the other side of the slip.. I believe it’s volume was 2x + that of the one on the left .

Derrick Jasper commented on Wade's post
Here’s a pic I found in one of my books showing the larger gas holder .

Derrick Jasper commented on Wade's post in response to a question about the book

William Opper posted
Lee A. Tregurtha is in the house
 
Ba Grassel posted
Ford Rouge powerhouse.
7/26/23
Exploded the day after the superbowl in 99

Charlie Whipp posted
This photo was taken at the CSX Rouge yard showing the classic Ford powerhouse in the background with its eight stacks. The powerhouse was a landmark for decades, supplying power to the huge Ford Rouge complex constructed by the Ford Motor Co. in Dearborn, Mi under the leadership of Henry Ford. 
On February 1st, 1999 a massive boiler explosion took place killing 6 workers and seriously burning many others. 
If you're interested, the link below in the comments leads to a short video explaining the powerhouse's history including a tour of the abandoned structure before it was razed in 2025. 
Photo taken in April 1991.

Dsmile32 posted
A worker inspects engines at the Ford River Rouge Plant in 1955

30:27 video that emphasizes the iron and steel works rather than assembly 

1935 layout    I'm still trying to figure out how to get larger high-res images  


Sunday, March 3, 2019

Warsaw, IN: Tower (KS): CFER/Penn vs. NS/BigFour and Lost/Big4 & Pennsy Depots

Tower: (Satellite, long gone.)
Big Four Depot: (Satellite, long gone.)
Pennsy Depot: (Satellite)

Raymond Storey posted

Jim Kelling posted two photos with the comment: "Warsaw Indiana (PRR/PFW&Chicago) 1893."
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2

Dennis DeBruler commented on Jim's post
Location: https://maps.app.goo.gl/saXJUo8Um2RykjYF9
View: https://maps.app.goo.gl/xgZxGZFXT5GyZRDy5
 
I.e. Xam posted
Warsaw IN

Frank Jacobs III posted
1910. Warsaw, Ind. Old postcard.

Paul Lutz posted five photos with the comment:
Similar to Adams, here are a couple of views of Warsaw tower--one of which clearly shows that the westbound main has been shut down (rust) and the ominous brown box that would soon replace the tower is on site. In happier times, Warsaw tower operator Royce Burke hands up orders to an eastbound. Another showing the tower board and last shot showing operator Jack Frasure at the tower's desk. I don't have specific dates on when I took each photo.
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2
[The connector track confirms that the tower was in the southeast quadrant. And that is consistent with the resty w/b track being on the north side.]

3
[It is interesting that he is holding a hoop since Photo 2 shows that the tower had an "iron man."]

4
[It looks like the tower did more mainline traffic control than junction control. I wonder why the connector track is not modelled.]

5

Darren Reynolds posted five images with the comment: "Conrails ( Ex-PRR) 
"Warsaw" tower (KS)
Warsaw, Indiana"
Richard Fiedler shared
1
"Warsaw" tower was at the crossing of the NYC And the PRR....1986
Photo by: Dan Maners
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2
With the operator on the ground at "Warsaw" tower a Conrail Mix freight passes...April 1981
Photo by: Doug Leffler

3
A PRR track and interlocking diagram and interlocking machine information for "Warsaw" tower

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A Conrail Coal train passes "Warsaw" tower...Apr.1981
Photo by: Doug Leffler

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"Warsaw" tower...Warsaw, Indiana
Photo by: Dan Maners

Mar 17, 1961 @ 24,000; AR1VAER00010002

San Bernardino, CA: Santa Fe 1886 Transfer Table, Etc. and Depot

Railyard: (Satellite, the railyard is now and intermodal facility.)
Roundhouse: (Satellite)
Depot: (Satellite)

 
Tim Starr posted
Some lucky students are getting a tour of the Santa Fe's roundhouse at San Bernardino CA in 1948. (University of California)
 
Bill Morris posted
Here is a VERY rare color photo of the San Bernardino round house with a full roster of beautiful Santa Fe Baldwins.  The occational photos that I post are not mine. I have found them in various places  on line and share them with the group for all to enjoy.
 
Dave Washburn posted
San Bernadino Round House on the Santa Fe RR dated 1908 on back. Photo is cracked across the top.

Los Angeles Railroad Heritage Foundation posted
Santa Fe's 1988 open house in San Bernardino, by Elrond Lawrence
Dan Elwood As I recall, a gentleman at the shops removed the stencils for this paint job from a dumpster. Well done, sir.
Gary Lepper Brings back memories of the shops . I ran that transfer table in the beginning of my career at San Bernardino shops. Good old days

Note the transfer table in the foreground.
LIVE GAME CS posted
A pair of Santa Fe Railway's finest, a bit battered and bruised after repeatedly operating for thousands of miles at a time, poke their noses out of the shops in San Bernardino. Built in June 1973, ATSF SD45-2 5704 was the last unit of the second, and largest, order of SD45-2s. It was also the fifth of the railway's five Bicentennial locomotives, and the colorful paint is looking a bit haggard in the 1978 view. It's stablemate, over on track 7, is FP45 5942. This locomotive was constructed in December 1967 as ATSF 102, one of nine FP45s intended to supplement the railway's aging fleet of passenger F-units, and allowed the last of the PA-1s and PB-1s to be retired. After the Santa Fe handed over passenger operations to Amtrak in May 1971, their FP45s were repainted from the red and silver "Warbonnet" scheme into freight colors and moved to the freight pool in 1973, following the arrival of Amtrak's new SDP40Fs. ATSF 5942 was just over ten years old in this photo.
Santa Fe first constructed their locomotive shop in San Bernardino in 1886, and the complex underwent a number of changes throughout the years as railroad technology changed, and this shop was able to perform remanufacturing and heavy repairs for much of the railway, from New Mexico to San Diego and the Bay Area. Eventually, this work was transferred to shops further east, primarily in Kansas, and this impressive complex was razed in 1996. (San Bernardino, California -May 1978).
Photo Credit to Craig Walker.
Mike Bauer: Both units seen here are preserved, with 5942 later renumbered to ATSF 92, operating at IRM.
Andrew Weldy: Since May ATSF 5704 is now at the Southern California Railway Museum. It is steadily being worked on by a group of dedicated volunteers with a goal of eventually getting it back up and running under its own power.
Steve Sharrow: What a shame that so few of those F45/FP45 units escaped the torch.
Noah Graham: Steve Sharrow 6 out of the 9 ATSF FP45s still survive. 5944 and 96 were destroyed in wrecks and 91 was sold to the Wisconsin Central which they scrapped. ATSF/BNSF cared a lot about the FPs. The F45s and SDF40-2s sadly weren't as lucky.
Roger Eyrich shared

Sean Huber commented on Mike's comment
and repainted into it's Warbonnet glory.
 
Sean Huber commented on the above post
same locomotive. Built as 102 renumbered when rebuilt for freight service to 5942, renumbered again to 5992 then again to 101 and now wears 92.

Andy Brown commented on the above post
5704 in its repainted Bicentennial colors at Kansas City in 2022

JR Ruiz posted

Sean McReynolds shared
Steve Rippeteau Looks like a photo taken by Jack Delano working for the US Office of War Information. He made a trip on the ATSF by freight train in March 1943 to document the capability of the Santa Fe Ry to handle the surge of military transcontinental traffic during WWII. If it is a Delano photo it should be attributed to him or who ever took this great photo.

March 1943. San Bernardino, California. A general view in the Atchison, Topeka, and Santa Fe Railroad locomotive shops.


Michael Phillips posted
Here is a 1909-10 postcard of the Santa Fe yard and shops in San Bernardino.
Bill Roberts And there's the stack way back there!
Otto Kroutil Great colorized photo, but I don't think it's the same stack. This one is east of the shops, by the old pedestrian bridge torn down when the subway was built, whereas "the stack" that's still there is by Mt. Vernon Viaduct. Interesting to see the many changes over the ages, and a bit sad to see the current state...
Curtis Croulet The 0-6-0 switcher was nearly new. Worley says it was built in 1907.

Francisco Lacy posted
Sad to find out today all that remains of the San Bernardino Santa Fe steam shops is the powerhouse smoke stack and shop whistle. The passenger terminal on the south side is immaculately preserved though.

Eric Kruse posted
March 1985 CTC Board magazine front cover story feature on the Santa Fe's San Bernadino, CA. shops.

Alfred Lynch posted
On April 4, 1980, I captured 6 months old SD40-2 5087 at San Bernardino, CA. in less than as-delivered-condition. In March 1980, I believe at the second crossing of Figueroa Street, in Highland Park, CA., a westbound TOFC train lead by the 5087 struck a house being moved. It seems the movers failed to notify ATSF of their activity. The house was destroyed, but the 5087 would be repaired by the good people of San Bernardino Shops and is somewhere on the BNSF system today.
Actually, it hit an apartment building that was being moved.
Rick Kisinger commented on Alfred's post

Judy Webb posted
Bill shot this photo of the back shop building and sign while going on duty at San Bernardino "A" yard. Usually there are cars that block this view.
Judy Webb posted
Bill found this picture while going through his slides and thought it should be shared. This is T. R. Graham (Timmy). at the old San Bernardino "A" yard in the former San Bernardino Freight House.

Alfred Lynch posted
In mid May, 1988, I wandered behind the San Bernardino shop complex and captured 347C (39C) and 347B (35A) they were being prepared for a return to red and silver warbonnet.Herb Iske Now if only the faulty pistons could be dealt with. Having grown up in the 50s just off the 4th District in Oceanside, CA watching covered wagons pull the San Diegans, I’d sure love to see them run again.
Alfred Lynch Herb Iske for those of us who are old enough to remember the F's in Santa Fe passenger service that would be very special. The good people in Perris, CA. could take better care of them and get them running.Herb Iske They do amazing restoration work in Perris.
Herb Iske commented on Alfred's post
This image is my favorite taken during the filming session up in Cajon Pass.in 1989.
Alfred Lynch Herb Iske great shot. I was at a Union Oil training program in Chicago and completely missed the event. I went over to Joliet Union Station to take pictures and a man at the station told me about the Santa Fe F's pulling a passenger train on Cajon Pass. Well, they were on the pass, not quite pulling!
Paul Jansson Herb Iske man we were standing next to each other! That was a fun day.
Scott Molotov Where are they now?
Gabriel Joseph Perez They are at the California State Railroad Museum in Sacramento.
Kevin Leddy No. All that remains of the San Bernardino shops is the smoke stack. It was all cleared away for construction of the intermodal facility.

JR Ruiz posted
A transparency showing the interior of the Atchison, Topeka & Santa Fe Railway diesel shop at San Bernardino, California. Visible in the image are diesel locomotives 4652 and 4551. July 1973
Timothy Bryan Wampler That place no longer stands, Barstow is where all the major diesel and car repair is done in California.
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Depot and Roundhouse


Street View, Apr 2022

Chris Spisak posted three images with the comment:
Photos of yard layout from San Bernardino, CA Station
1,2 show Shops, Roundhouse
3 Intermodal
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2

3

Greg Harper commented on Chris' post

Greg Harper commented on Chris' post

Greg Harper commented on Chris' post

Greg Harper commented on Chris' post

We can see the roof of one of the backshops in the background.
Martin Hansen posted
The 1940's brought about many scenes like this one all across the railroads of this country.  Steam roundhouses that were once the sole domain of steam motive power began to be slowly invaded by the new diesel power that would soon spell the end to not only steam power, but also the roundhouses that were built to keep them serviced.
Here we see the Santa Fe roundhouse in San Bernadino, California during this era of transition.  While steam still dominates the scene, there are obvious examples of new diesel power that has crept in.
Its only a matter of time now.
Roger Eyrich shared